thoughts & clippings: Regarding the Salvation Army

Dec 25

thoughts & clippings: Regarding the Salvation Army →

notforyoutobreak:

ancientcontemporaries:

dumbthingswhitepplsay:

notforyoutobreak:

dreammerchant:

notyourkinddear:

dreammerchant:

kenmorethompson:

There’s been a bit of stuff going around on Twitter and Tumblr tonight about how the Salvation Army is not an organization you should be giving your money to. As someone who grew up in a family connected to the Salvation Army, and as a former employee of the Salvation Army (three separate…

This bit is the facts on The Salvation Army because a lot of you have no idea what you’re talking about. Merry Christmas.

Umm… this does not change in any way the fact that they are bigoted. They HAVE refused services to gay and trans* people. That is a fact. (ETA: It was published on their U.S. website that they refuse to serve gay people. They may have since taken that wordage out, but they did have that proudly enshrined in policy.)

I didn’t want to distract from the convo about their stance on homosexuality (and for the record, being trans* does not mean someone is gay - these are two separate issues that cannot be conflated), so I didn’t say anything. And ultimately, the one truth is that yes, they are a CHURCH. So first and foremost, people should consider whether they want to support a CHURCH, and what KIND OF CHURCH they want to support if they are willing to support a church at all.

But their anti-gay/anti-trans* policies are not their only bigotry. They are also rabidly anti-Muslim. I have been harassed, called names, followed into a store, threatened by, and spat at by bell ringers. When I called to register a complaint with the head of volunteer services, merely suggesting that they might train their volunteers to represent them better, I was first told that there was nothing they could do and then was insulted and called names by the volunteer coordinator before she told me I was going to hell anyway and should “go back where you came from” and hung up on me.

So I don’t really care that some branches aren’t as overtly bigoted as others. I don’t really care that some take their mission of serving the most needy serious. The entire basis of their organization is to convince people to convert. The same thing goes for their work outside the U.S. and I have a serious moral hatred for religious groups who couch their “help” with material needs in pressure for people to become “good” members of the religion. Those who are not interested in converting are beneath them.

There are plenty of organizations, even some Christian organizations, out there that aren’t judgmental or bigoted or hateful. People have a right to have the information necessary to decide what kind of organization they want to give their money to.

Your response demonstrates your failure to take note that the article says everything you just said.

As for your personal experiences, I can’t correct that and it’s rubbish that you’ve gone through that. However, the way you present your case seems like you’re grouping thousands - if not millions - of people into one gay-bashing/Christ-pushing/other-religion-hating group. And for that, you are wrong. You are doing exactly what those who wronged you did to you.

I’m not sure if you are Muslim but, whether you accept it or not, your own religion carries the same tenets are Christianity. I have studied the Qu’ran in detail and have partaken in discussions with many who belong to the Nation of Islam. Do this mean you all believe and act the same? Heck, as an African, I’m not even welcome in many Arabic countries. Does that mean that I should group all Muslims together? Obviously not.

Also, due to a pretty good grasp on history, I am very aware of the effects of those who partake in ALL religions on any region to which it is not native.

I personally do not donate to anything monetarily, whether I research an organization or not. I would rather go and donate my time or buy someone lunch because, that way, I know where the resources are going.

That’s it.

Wow…how arrogant and dismissive can you get?

No, notyourkinddear isn’t doing the same thing done to them. Protecting yourself from a bigoted organization isn’t the same thing as the organization discriminating against marginalized people. Not at all. That comparison was fucking ignorant.

And notyourkinddear’s experiences is probably not the only one out there. The Salvation Army has a strong history discriminating against people because of their sexual orientation and gender identity. I can easily imagine them being racist and anti-Muslim as well. You were unbelieveably rude trying to dismiss the personal experience they shared. There are plenty more out there I’m sure you would dismiss as well.

You’re the one who doesn’t know what the fuck they’re talking about here.

lol wtf ever. a quick fucking bit of research on the salvation army will show you its numerous shittastic actions

gtfo

Who cares whether being trans is different from being gay. It’s all bigotry.

Um, I’m not sure exactly what your point is here exactly. Are you saying that gay people and trans* people suffer all the same?

Trans* people do get some particular, nasty discrimination thrown against them. Despite being multiply-marginalized myself and being a lesbian, I could never imagine some of the discrimination trans* people go through. And cis people within the gay and lesbian community are often guilty of spreading such discrimination against trans* people.

So no, it’s not all the same.

Yes, they are both bigotry, but as already said they are not the same experiences. But the specific reason that I felt I needed to point out that they are not the same is because what the OP was responding to is a conversation that discussed the anti-gay policies of the Salvation Army in the U.S. (specifically NYC) that then went on to include information about trans* people who had been discriminated against, including one who died outside the shelter because they were not allowed in. But the OP’s post only referenced homosexuality, not gender variations. I don’t know if the OP may have completely missed the fact that the conversation had turned to explicitly include that discrimination was happening in both cases, or if they merely didn’t feel comfortable speaking about that particular aspect for whatever reason. But because it was part of the bigger convo and not explicitly addressed by the OP I felt it necessary to clarify in case the OP or others were conflating gender identity and homosexuality, which is not uncommon to see done. I’m sorry if it seems like a non-issue in relation to the rest of the post, but as someone who feels those discriminations very differently, I would feel remiss to leave it out and allow it to continue to be seen as all one issue. To say they are both bigotry is akin to saying that the anti-Muslim stance is just another bigotry that didn’t have to be specified, or that the anti-immigrant stance of the Salvation Army is just another bigotry that doesn’t have to be specified. It is important, in my opinion, to lay out the multiple layers of bigotry that they perpetuate and that are part of their policies. To do otherwise would be erasing of some of those bigotries.

Thankyouthankyou. And also, I don’t really have a problem with “grouping thousands - if not millions - of people” into one mass of bigotry because the question at hand is NOT whether every single person involved with the Salvation Army harbors a conscious hatred of queer people, Muslims, and people who want/support abortion. The question is whether or not to support the Salvation Army with our money. It is with our donated money that they implement these policies, allow their members to commit these acts, and lobby for bigoted politicians.

It does not matter whether or not most members of the Salvation Army are caring, non-judgmental individuals. The money goes to support the same actions and policies.

118 notes | Reblogged: (via)

5 months ago Source: kenmorethompson